Turn Sequencer

Non-bug comments, suggestions, and feature requests for BRPG and/or BGE
ashaman13
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Turn Sequencer

Post by ashaman13 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:37 pm

I was wondering what you guys thought about making certain characters on the Turn sequencer "invisible" to the players. That way I can load up a characters stats like AC HP and such without the players seeing it.

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heruca
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Post by heruca » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:52 pm

You can use the Turn Sequencer Configuration Wizard to set certain values to be obscured from non-owners. All they'll see is "N/A" in those columns.

Data/value obscurement also happens automatically if the unit itself is Hidden.
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Post by nightwalker450 » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:52 pm

The way I currently do this, is when I'm setting up the encounter I include all of my figures in the Turn Sequencer. Then I can set their HP and Initiatives (I preroll all NPC initiatives). After I'm done with that, any NPC's that I don't want in at the very beginning of combat I remove them from the Turn Sequencer.

It will save their information, so when you're ready for them to enter combat, you just Include them in the Turn Sequencer again. If their Initiative is higher than the current initative score, then it will be their turn automatically, otherwise they will be moved to their proper place in the order.

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Post by nortonweb » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:23 pm

That's what I do too.
Running 5 player D&D 4E campaign over the net using BRPG 1.4e

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Post by heruca » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:46 pm

Pre-rolling initiative hadn't occurred to me. That's a good time-saver.
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Post by ashaman13 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:42 am

thanks for the quick replies I'm really trying to get the hang of the system so I can really "sell" it to my players. i'm all for it already. I think the program is awesome and the support (heruca i'm looking at you) is nothing short of fantastic. I'll try ur suggestions out and report back here later.

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Post by ashaman13 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:35 am

tried it out but it would be more helpful if i could choose which figures i wanted invisible. For example, i could choose my NPC's and monsters stats (AC/HP and such) to be invisible to the players but have those same stats visible to the PC's. That way they can keep track of their HP themselves, or make adjustments to their AC.

If i make the stats unavailable to the players they won't be able to do that at all.

EDIT:

BTW this is just an idea...not complaining or nitpicking. I love the program aside from a couple of bugs and can't wait to try it with the whole group.

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Post by heruca » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:13 am

heruca wrote:You can use the Turn Sequencer Configuration Wizard to set certain values to be obscured from non-owners. All they'll see is "N/A" in those columns.
Are you saying this didn't work for you? Is there a bug that is still permitting the players to see the obscured stats of GM-owned fiugres?
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Post by ashaman13 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:52 am

No that worked perfectly. The values were hidden. I want to be able to choose what figure's values are hidden. I want the players to see their values but not the NPC's. Some way to choose what figures are "visible" to the players would be great.

My turn sequencer looks something like this:

Init Init Bonus Max HP Bloodied Current HP AC Fort Ref Will

I want the players to be able to fill in these stats on their sequencers and view them but also keep my NPC stats invisible to them.

I hope i'm not confusing you to much LOL


EDIT:

Oooh now I get it!!! Instead of making the value "GM Only" Set it at "non owners can't view"


Thanks so much and sorry for my boneheadedness

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Post by Monk » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:12 pm

I have a few ideas for the Turn Sequencer now that I have had a chance to use it

1) It would be great if I could click on a column value say the Init value for a character and have it automatically highlight that value so I can quickly change the information. Currently it focuses on the first column textbox and doesn't highlight

2) Also it would be neat if once you have entered a number in the appropriate text box that I could hit the down arrow key and it would highlight the next character and automatically select the column value so to enter data even faster.

3) An even FASTER idea would be to add a dice macro to the init field and set a phase to automatically call this dice macro so that I can automatically roll and calculate the init for that character by simply stepping through the phase. That way, all I have to do is step through the init phase and suddenly I have a new set of initiatives, all the characters are sorted and I can start the next round immediately.

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Post by EberronKnight » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:19 am

Monk wrote:I have a few ideas for the Turn Sequencer now that I have had a chance to use it

1) It would be great if I could click on a column value say the Init value for a character and have it automatically highlight that value so I can quickly change the information. Currently it focuses on the first column textbox and doesn't highlight

2) Also it would be neat if once you have entered a number in the appropriate text box that I could hit the down arrow key and it would highlight the next character and automatically select the column value so to enter data even faster.

3) An even FASTER idea would be to add a dice macro to the init field and set a phase to automatically call this dice macro so that I can automatically roll and calculate the init for that character by simply stepping through the phase. That way, all I have to do is step through the init phase and suddenly I have a new set of initiatives, all the characters are sorted and I can start the next round immediately.
I'm with you on #3, love to have a dice macro set up, so I don't have to stop the game for everyone to roll and then to enter in their rolls. Love to just automatically roll and calculate the init for the players.

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Post by heruca » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:51 am

Welcome, EberronKnight.

I've already got some ideas on how I might implement this functionality. Sure would be a time-saver, for some game systems.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Post by EberronKnight » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:34 pm

heruca wrote:Welcome, EberronKnight.

I've already got some ideas on how I might implement this functionality. Sure would be a time-saver, for some game systems.
Thanks Heruca! This would totally be a great time-saver, loving your program so far, keep up the great work!

EK

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Agree completely

Post by markuwp » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:40 pm

EberronKnight wrote:
heruca wrote:Welcome, EberronKnight.

I've already got some ideas on how I might implement this functionality. Sure would be a time-saver, for some game systems.
Thanks Heruca! This would totally be a great time-saver, loving your program so far, keep up the great work!
I agree completely, both about loving battlegrounds thus far and about an automated initiative system being a great time saver. I'm so glad you have thought about how you'll implement this!!! Having one button to roll all the initiative macros and enter the results into the turn sequencer will make a huge difference for our game.

Thanks again for being so attentive to user feedback and for all the continued development.

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turn sequencer

Post by adiposeboy » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:30 pm

I can't agree more. Love the system so far, but something that would roll all initiatives with one click would be a dream. Would definitely speed up play significantly. Thanks for thinking about this!

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Post by heruca » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:37 pm

Welcome, adiposeboy.

Since you all are asking so nicely, I'm moving this up on my to-do list. :)
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Post by jforest1 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:21 pm

My group and I have taken a look at Battlegrounds and it looks cool, but we just cannot switch until there is an initiative roller at least par with the system we currently use.

Not sure how you want to do it in Battlegrounds, but here's how it works in the system we use today:

1. Players all set their initiative modifiers.
2. DM sets the initiative modifiers of his monsters/NPCs.
3. DM clicks button, all initiatives are rolled and calculated.

For the most part, each round after, only #3 is repeated, except when, say, player characters change weapons or do a different action, so they update their new initiative modifier and then #3.

Like I said, tried to convince the DM to switch to Battlegrounds in our group of 8 but he said, "I'm not gonna use it if it doesn't do the initiative rolls. It is too much of a hassle. Let me know when they have it in the game, then we can all pay and play with it, but until then we stick with what we've got."

I'm really excited about Battlegrounds, but he won't budge. And the DM's word is final, so you know how that goes!

Please reply to this thread if/when this feature will be in the game, and you'll get a few new subscriptions from us in the very least. Looks like others want it as well so that is encouraging. And you know for every person who speaks up there are 10 others that agree but aren't speaking up...

Thanks alot looking forward to the improvements!

--josh

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Post by heruca » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:40 pm

Welcome, jforest1/Josh.

My, this has proven to be a very popular request.

I'll try to implement this feature in such a way that the initiative bonus (or whatever value you specify for sequencing) is pulled from the current data in the Turn Sequencer, since that seems like a more flexible approach than referencing a "hard-coded" dice macro.
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initiative

Post by adiposeboy » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:02 pm

Thanks so much for your willingness to listen to mere cannon fodder! Really appreciate your efforts.

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What system do you use?

Post by markuwp » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:29 am

Hey jforest1,

Out of curiosity, what system have you been using? The initiative system you're describing sounds exactly like ScreenMonkey, except that the GM types a command instead of pushing a button (my version might be old). It may be most VTTs handle initiative in the same way.

We were reluctant to switch from using ScreenMonkey because we were used to it. There is some learning curve involved with BRPG (more for the GM than the players), mostly because it does much more, but now I think we're all very glad we made the switch to BRPG.

I partially wrote a review comparing SM and BRPG but never actually posted it-- maybe I'll finish it at some point. There are a couple of things that are easier in SM, but on the whole BRPG is better hands-down (IMO).

I think the turn-sequencer based system Heruca discussed will basically do what you described but will be better because it gives more flexibility and is more consistent with the way other things work in BRPG.
jforest1 wrote:My group and I have taken a look at Battlegrounds and it looks cool, but we just cannot switch until there is an initiative roller at least par with the system we currently use.

Not sure how you want to do it in Battlegrounds, but here's how it works in the system we use today:

1. Players all set their initiative modifiers.
2. DM sets the initiative modifiers of his monsters/NPCs.
3. DM clicks button, all initiatives are rolled and calculated.

For the most part, each round after, only #3 is repeated, except when, say, player characters change weapons or do a different action, so they update their new initiative modifier and then #3.

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Post by heruca » Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:20 pm

How automated do you want this "auto-roll initiative" feature? Should I make it so that Dice Roll Results window never even appears, and the Initiative data in the TS is simply updated with the new values? Should initiative rolls be reported in the Chat window, as other die rolls are?
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Post by heruca » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:54 pm

heruca wrote:I'll try to implement this feature in such a way that the initiative bonus (or whatever value you specify for sequencing) is pulled from the current data in the Turn Sequencer, since that seems like a more flexible approach than referencing a "hard-coded" dice macro.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this in BRPG v1.x. :(

Players will have to manually update their "Initiative" dice macros with the proper modifiers (e.g. Init Bonus) prior to the GM auto-rolling initiative for everyone.

Is Init Bonus a constantly-changing value in D&D 4E? What factors affect the Init Bonus? Weapon speed? Buffs?
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Disappointed... wait, no I'm not! I'm excited!

Post by markuwp » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:11 pm

When I first glanced at this message about auto-initiative I saw the "Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this in BRPG v1.x" I was ready to write a note saying "Thanks for trying." Then I actually read the rest of the message, and on the whole I'm much more optimistic than disappointed. While pulling an initiative modifier out of the turn sequencer would be more elegant, a system that auto-rolls each unit's macro called "Initiative" would work just fine. I'm very happy that you've been giving this thought and working on it!

In terms of automation, I think the most important feature in an auto-initiative system is that the initiative rolls are automatically entered into the Turn Sequencer. In our current game the process of typing initiative results into the Turn Sequencer takes much longer than rolling the dice (when more than one person is trying to enter data at the same time it can be hard to access it or changes are lost when the columns resort in response to someone else's change).

My first reaction to your earlier question was that I would not want to see the die results at all-- just to have them the results appear in the turn sequencer. However, on further thought I would want the initiative rolls to be in the roll history just so the macros could be inspected. If someone's initiative seemed consistently too good or too bad you'd want to be able to inspect their macro to make sure they hadn't made a mistake setting it up.

I have a very mild preference for having the roll results appear in the chat window, but part of that may be that we use VOIP and almost never use chat. Someone else who uses chat a lot for in-game communications might feel that having initiative rolls show up there clutters things, but it wouldn't really be any different than how things work now with manual initiative.

In our version of D&D, initiative modifiers do change based on the action being performed, but more often than not they are consistent from round-to-round. I think a system where the GM pushes a button to roll the initiative macro for every unit (using its attached die macro called "initiative") and place the values rolled into an initiative column of the turn sequencer would be a fantastic addition. I wouldn't argue with future improvements or refinements, but this solution would definitely solve my players' biggest complaint about using BRPG. The results of the individual die rolls could show up elsewhere or not, as long as the macros used to roll them could be inspected by the GM.

One other small suggestion for implementation-- The GM could have the option of setting up a default initiative macro (which would be rolled for every unit that does not have an initiative macro attached). This would make things easy in games where most pieces have the same initiative chance or when using large numbers of similar NPCs. Otherwise, the scores for all units without an attached initiative die macro would default to blank (which would also be helpful in testing which units had init macros set up and which didn't).

Thank you again for working on this!! We are all so happy to see that you are thinking about auto-initiative and making progress!

Mark
heruca wrote:
heruca wrote:I'll try to implement this feature in such a way that the initiative bonus (or whatever value you specify for sequencing) is pulled from the current data in the Turn Sequencer, since that seems like a more flexible approach than referencing a "hard-coded" dice macro.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this in BRPG v1.x. :(

Players will have to manually update their "Initiative" dice macros with the proper modifiers (e.g. Init Bonus) prior to the GM auto-rolling initiative for everyone.

Is Init Bonus a constantly-changing value in D&D 4E? What factors affect the Init Bonus? Weapon speed? Buffs?

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Re: Disappointed... wait, no I'm not! I'm excited!

Post by heruca » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:16 am

Success! Auto-rolling initiative for all combatants (i.e., any unit listed in the Turn Sequencer) is now working. :D

I still have some refinements to make, but the feature is far enough along now that it will definitely be in BRPG v1.4k.
markuwp wrote:I would want the initiative rolls to be in the roll history just so the macros could be inspected.
Init rolls are essentially invisible to users as they happen, but the rolls ARE being stored for review in the Dice Roll History, should anyone care to view them.
markuwp wrote:If someone's initiative seemed consistently too good or too bad you'd want to be able to inspect their macro to make sure they hadn't made a mistake setting it up.
Since dice macros attached to units are inspect-able by the GM at any time, this sort of check is a cinch. It can even be done before a roll is made.
markuwp wrote:One other small suggestion for implementation-- The GM could have the option of setting up a default initiative macro (which would be rolled for every unit that does not have an initiative macro attached). This would make things easy in games where most pieces have the same initiative chance or when using large numbers of similar NPCs. Otherwise, the scores for all units without an attached initiative die macro would default to blank (which would also be helpful in testing which units had init macros set up and which didn't).
Right now, when a unit doesn't have an "Initiative" dice macro, I have it filling in the Turn Sequencer data for initiative with a blank entry. It's easy enough to make a default "Initiative" dice macro and attach it to any unit that needs it.

One nice thing about this new feature is that you no longer have to have, say, all your Goblin Spearmen share the exact same initiative value just because it's easier to handle it that way in a face-to-face game.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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Re: Disappointed... wait, no I'm not! I'm excited!

Post by markuwp » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:29 pm

This sounds fantastic. Thanks again for all the work!
heruca wrote:Success! Auto-rolling initiative for all combatants (i.e., any unit listed in the Turn Sequencer) is now working. :D

I still have some refinements to make, but the feature is far enough along now that it will definitely be in BRPG v1.4k.
markuwp wrote:I would want the initiative rolls to be in the roll history just so the macros could be inspected.
Init rolls are essentially invisible to users as they happen, but the rolls ARE being stored for review in the Dice Roll History, should anyone care to view them.
markuwp wrote:If someone's initiative seemed consistently too good or too bad you'd want to be able to inspect their macro to make sure they hadn't made a mistake setting it up.
Since dice macros attached to units are inspect-able by the GM at any time, this sort of check is a cinch. It can even be done before a roll is made.
markuwp wrote:One other small suggestion for implementation-- The GM could have the option of setting up a default initiative macro (which would be rolled for every unit that does not have an initiative macro attached). This would make things easy in games where most pieces have the same initiative chance or when using large numbers of similar NPCs. Otherwise, the scores for all units without an attached initiative die macro would default to blank (which would also be helpful in testing which units had init macros set up and which didn't).
Right now, when a unit doesn't have an "Initiative" dice macro, I have it filling in the Turn Sequencer data for initiative with a blank entry. It's easy enough to make a default "Initiative" dice macro and attach it to any unit that needs it.

One nice thing about this new feature is that you no longer have to have, say, all your Goblin Spearmen share the exact same initiative value just because it's easier to handle it that way in a face-to-face game.

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