Any Car Wars fans here?

Non-bug comments, suggestions, and feature requests for BRPG and/or BGE

Any Car Wars fans here?

Postby heruca » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:06 pm

I'm considering adding some functions to BRPG that would allow Car Wars games to be played. Car Wars is a classic beginner-level wargame from the 1980s. It's currently a pretty dead product at SJ Games, but I think there are a lot of people that would love to be able to play CW online. The Vassal game engine already supports this, but I think BRPG can do it better. I'd love to expand BRPG's userbase, and this might be a relatively easy way to do it.

Speak up if you'd be interested in this.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby tenkar » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:30 pm

I still have a number of the car wars pocket sized sets, and maybe one boxed set. Think I even have the original Ogre game too. What memories... yes please ;)
tenkar
Soldier
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:33 pm

Postby Murgh Bpurn » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:45 pm

Loved this game, bought it after seeing Mad Max at the cinema!

So yes,
Image
thumbs up from me.

:)
MB
Image
User avatar
Murgh Bpurn
Sergeant
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:34 am

Postby heruca » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:07 pm

Here's a mockup of how a Car Wars game might look in BRPG:

Image

I figured it might be neat to throw in some transparency on the car counter's edges and on the Turning Key, so you can see what's underneath (and to make it look a bit nicer).

The tileable road section I made with a combination of Dundjinni and Photoshop. Maps of dueling arenas, city blocks, off-road areas, etc. could be made the same way. The counters I simply scanned (obviously).

Playing CW in Battlegrounds would have some very nice advantages:
¢ No fiddly cardboard counters that get blown away accidentally or moved out of position by an errant die.
¢ No fighting the creases/folds on the paper maps.
¢ Easily re-color the vehicle tokens in a graphics app.
¢ Clone any counter as many times as you want.
¢ No rooting around the counter tray looking for a particular counter that doesn't want to be found.
¢ Game charts are a hotkey (or a mouseover) away, so they can be easily referenced during play.
¢ No set-up time, just load a pre-made scenario and get right to playing.
¢ No clean-up.
¢ And to top it off, you can play sound effects (weapons fire, skids/tire-squeels, crashes, motors revving, spectator oohs & ahhs, etc.) on cue, to enhance the mood, or even play background music.

Hopefully in a couple of months, the necessary software features will be in place to run a very slick and fast-paced game of CW online (or offline).
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby tenkar » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:51 pm

Damn that looks sweet :)
tenkar
Soldier
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:33 pm

Postby Omnidon » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:47 pm

Yeah, almost makes me want to play, and I don't even like that kind of game. :P
User avatar
Omnidon
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2103
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:46 pm
Location: NY State, USA

Postby mahhand » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:09 am

Wow! Me and my gaming group used to play car wars all the time, that looks killer Heruca. Any chance we could get the art pieces? especially the turning key???

mahhand
mahhand
Captain
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:05 pm

Postby heruca » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:31 am

You could get the road section, the Turning Key, and the various bases, but everything else is copyright SJ Games, I'm afraid. You could either scan in your old counters, or use the cars & trucks that have been uploaded to rpgmapshare and the DJ forums.

Edit: I also see that someone has posted at least one scan of the counters at www.boardgamegeek.com
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/58790?size=large

By the way, here's what the original game components look like in use, for those unfamiliar with Car Wars.
Image
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby Balesir » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:41 am

Oh, cool! The ability to play Car Wars (nostalgia hit!) and similar, as a bonus, on my RPG VTT would be very neat indeed!

Nice one!
Balesir
Balesir
General
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:29 pm

Postby Emryys » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:22 pm

tenkar wrote:Damn that looks sweet :)


Oooo... Teaser for BG:Wargames Edition... :)
User avatar
Emryys
Sergeant
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:38 pm
Location: Canada

Postby heruca » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:39 am

Mahhand,

I'm currently making my own mini set of Car Wars counters that I hope to release soon as a freebie download. It does away with SGJ's proprietary art, so it should be perfectly kosher. It's coming out pretty nice. A bit less cartoony and more realistic.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby heruca » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:10 am

Here's a new mock-up, using original art this time.

I particularly like the new mines and spikes better than the SJG ones.
Attachments
CW VT Mockup Original Art.jpg
CW VT Mockup Original Art.jpg (342.45 KiB) Viewed 9827 times
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

CAR WARS

Postby Speed_Melon » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:37 pm

Hi,
I just happened upon this site on this while I was looking for some Car wars forums on-line. Very nice work you got going on!
Paul
Speed_Melon
 

Postby morval » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:58 pm

heruca wrote:Here's a new mock-up, using original art this time.

I particularly like the new mines and spikes better than the SJG ones.


Oh man, you gotta get this and the War games edition up ASAP! The things the user can do once there are a few more things in BRPG (movement, etc.) are endless. The only thing that would hold widespread use of BRPG back is the copyright problems. But with things like Dundjinni and easy to access rendered 3D models its fairly easy to convert most games over to BRPG. The Actual game content like info on specific cards would still be copyright.

morval

PS: I'm in no way advocating trying to copy games, I own tons of them and have no problem buying more, but it would be nice to have the systems easily downloadable for BRPG without having to worry about copyright and having each user do all the work of recreating the game in BRPG.
morval
Sergeant
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:55 am

Postby Templar99 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:09 pm

I would love to see this for Battlegrounds. I am old-time Car Wars player myself.
Templar99
 

Postby heruca » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:22 pm

Battlegrounds v1.3 should have the necessary features in place to run a decent Car Wars game. This thread shows why:
http://battlegroundsgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11289#11289

I'm hoping for a June release of v1.3.

Edit: Changed projected release dates, and provided a more direct link.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

CAR WARS

Postby xtriaden » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:17 am

Hi, do you have the Car Wars Map, tools ect ready to use in Battleground yet? You have some nice pictures.
xtriaden
Cannon Fodder
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am

Postby heruca » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:25 am

Welcome, xtriaden.

Yes, I do. I have a Car Wars artpack with all sorts of vehicle and pedestrian tokens, road sections, a Turning Key, and even an arena-building kit. Unfortunately, I've been asked by SJ Games not to distribute it. Sorry.

BRPG could have been the best way to play Car Wars online, but I'm afraid that particular dream has been squashed, and Vassal may be your best bet.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby Thorvald » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:16 am

heruca wrote:Unfortunately, I've been asked by SJ Games not to distribute it. Sorry.

BRPG could have been the best way to play Car Wars online, but I'm afraid that particular dream has been squashed, and Vassal may be your best bet.


Ok, I registered just to reply to this. This has gone on long enough SJ!!!!!

Your own faq states:

"If you mean a "game aid" or "player aid" program, yes, you certainly can. Our online policy makes it possible for fans to create this kind of program, as long as trademark and copyright restrictions are honored. Several such gamer-created utility programs are already available on our website."

This certainly qualifies as a game aid. We still have to buy the rules from E23 or other sources!

----------------------------------

*Flame and Rant On*

I happened to be looking for more Car Wars news via Google and found this link (like I do every couple of years...*sign*). Looked so promising.

Once again, those bozos at SJ Games are stopping any interest in their own game. Do they not realize you need the game and rules to use Battlegrounds???? They are not trying to steal your Intellectual Property, they are providing ways to play with your game in a modern format!

Renewed Interest = New Fans = New Sales!

I've been a car wars fan since the beginning (yes I'm that old), bought all the original bag versions back in the early 80's and been waiting for a computer recreation for the past 28 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Each time some developer has gotten close, SJ has either asked them to cease or forced them to stop. However, SJ has NEVER come out with their own game or licensed anyone to make one.

Now understand this keeps happening every couple of years. A developer gets interest in reviving his love of the game and eventually SJ finds out and quashes it. Who no one has simply released something anonymously is beyond me.

Yes there have been "attempts" such as AutoDuel (Great game, just needed a little more development and port to a modern platform), Interstate series, etc but none was a proper conversion of the original game.

Back in 2006 in an interview, they quote "Steve Jackson continues to express an interest in developing video games based on the Car Wars concept.". This has been their line since about the mid-eighties! Ok, it's 2009 now guys!

They've got to realize this is a cult classic game and has a huge following. However they keep getting the target wrong. We didn't want/need a 5th Edition Rule set, we were quite happy with the original and expansions. Maybe go the way of WarHammer and make resin vehicles etc, lots of options SJ but this thread is about computer conversions so back on topic...

What we wanted was to still be able to buy the original game and a proper computer conversion, just like Risk, Axis & Allies and many others have done. I understand SJ is stuck in the 70/80's and doesn't like computers but jeez guys, your fans do!

Don't mess with the mechanics, just recreate the ORIGINAL game. Maybe provide options to turn on "variants" but don't prevent the original fans from playing what they love. The Settlers for the iPhone got this wrong and they are going to suffer for this (made it an RTS instead of the mechanics of Settlers 1 and 2 which has all the fan support). However they might actually fix this in a future version (we the fans are hoping!).

There are two games from my childhood that have never made the conversion properly, they are Car Wars and Battletech. Neither company has simply made a computer version of the board game, they always have to mess with it (Mechforce from Ralph Reed on the Amiga got it almost perfect and was apparently going to be licensed and released as an official product but something died there as well).

I was hoping that SJ would see how much ground swell the iPhone is developing and release or license a FAITHFUL port of the original Car Wars to it. Hint hint hint SJ games! (but they'll likely mess with the formula, try to add RPG or only port the Car Wars Card Game etc). I expect they'll release a utility or something but we don't need that...fans want a game!

I'd write a letter to SJ Games but there just is no use. After 28 years, you'd think they'd catch on but alas no.

---

Here is another quote from their faq:

"For a while, we were actively looking for partners to create digital versions of our games. This sucked up a lot of time, especially Steve's time, and got us just exactly nowhere. Now we're spending our time on what we know best “ boardgames and card games “ with a bit of in-house iPhone work to scratch the digital itch. Someday an experienced publisher will come up to us, holding lots of money out at the end of a long stick, and we'll talk with them."

You can read what you want into that...

In this day and age it's very easy to release something anonymously through torrent sites or other means and I'd suggest any other authors that want to do Car Wars for BG or other methods simply do it. But god forbid if they can trace it back to you. SJ seems to have unlimited time and funds to chase down people that create things they don't like but they have no time or money to do it themselves or support a developer that wants to make one.

Using torrent or other methods, SJ games can't hound you and we get to enjoy the game we love using the rules and books we've already purchased (and will keep purchasing form E23). Just don't be a twit and ask for paypal or other donations, then you're crossing the line and SJ has every right to pursue. If you want to "make a living" out of a Car Wars conversion, go work for SJ games.

Maybe SJ should "sell" the artwork addons for BattleGrounds on their website, there's an amazing idea SJ, have you thought of that? Sheesh.

Sorry SJ, I'm sure you have reasons (yes I've read your FAQ) and have been burned many times in the past but as I stated, it's been 28 years of waiting and I'm going to be dead and buried before this gets done.

I suspect we're going to be reading posts like the above and replies like mine for the next 20 years and beyond.

Signed,
Severely annoyed yet again
Thorvald
Cannon Fodder
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:10 am

Postby heruca » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:05 pm

Welcome, Thorvald.

Wow, that's quite a rant! :lol:

I hope someday SJG will reconsider allowing BRPG to support Car Wars.

But an anonymous torrent/whatever isn't the solution.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby Spyke » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:11 pm

Of course, there's nothing to stop any interested Car Wars players creating a map, some tokens, and a turning key themselves for their own personal use and getting together to play using BRPG, I assume?

I've certainly done that for Ogre, with no intention to distribute it.

Now that the Compendium and Counters are available from e23 as pdfs, I imagine this would be quite quick to do, perhaps a couple of hours?

I bought the Compendium. I've always wanted to see what the Car Wars fuss was about. ;-)

Spyke

EDIT: And I've just realised that I probably wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't been a BRPG user and aware that if I liked it I could play it using BRPG. So SJG got a sale purely because I own BRPG. Think how many more they could get if it was marketed that way!
User avatar
Spyke
Captain
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Yorkshire, UK

Car Wars with Battlegrounds...

Postby morval » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:16 pm

Sorry to drag up an old thread Heruca. :)

What was the reason SJG asked you not to distribute your pack? Couldn't you simply not mention "Car Wars", don't include the turning template, and no artwork from the game? I don't see how they could have a problem of you supplying us with artwork (Cars, mines, oil slicks, etc.).

I really liked your mockup you did with your own artwork!

I also don't understand how Vassal does it. I've asked users on their forums, but always get the usual answer. They are using original artwork and I just don't see how they got permission from SJG for anything. There are a ton of games on Vassal that you could play without ever owning the games and yet they are up there.

I'm still waiting for your Wargame Edition for some more specialized features so I can convert all of my many many boardgames. You have added a few things that might make it a bit easier now. I think I'll look into it again.

morval

heruca wrote:Welcome, xtriaden.

Yes, I do. I have a Car Wars artpack with all sorts of vehicle and pedestrian tokens, road sections, a Turning Key, and even an arena-building kit. Unfortunately, I've been asked by SJ Games not to distribute it. Sorry.

BRPG could have been the best way to play Car Wars online, but I'm afraid that particular dream has been squashed, and Vassal may be your best bet.
morval
Sergeant
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:55 am

Postby Joseph » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:28 pm

Maybe Vassal can do it since they don't charge for the game engine.

Either way, that is still crap that SJGames is putting a stop on it. Or did put a stop on it.
Joseph
 

Re: Car Wars with Battlegrounds...

Postby heruca » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:13 pm

morval wrote:What was the reason SJG asked you not to distribute your pack? Couldn't you simply not mention "Car Wars", don't include the turning template, and no artwork from the game? I don't see how they could have a problem of you supplying us with artwork (Cars, mines, oil slicks, etc.).


Morval, sorry I didn't respond before. I must've had my browser crash before I responded, and then forgot to revisit this thread (I often leave tabs open for responding when I get time, so this isn't the first time this has happened, and surely won't be the last).

SJ said that I was in infringement of their IP on at least several counts based solely on what he saw in the preview pics, but he didn't specify what the points of contention were. When I wrote him back to inquire about specifics, he never responded.

The only things I can think of that he could possibly take issue with would be the use of the Car Wars name and my recreation of the Car Wars turning key, both of which I would happily omit if it meant I could release the artpack. SJ claimed that if I released it, he would have no choice but to do everything in his power to put a stop to it (i.e., sick his lawyers on me).

I will attempt to solicit a response from SJ again, and see what happens.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Postby heruca » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:18 pm

Joseph wrote:Maybe Vassal can do it since they don't charge for the game engine.


SJ objected to me even releasing the artpack for free, so I doubt money was the factor.

Years have passed, and people continue playing CW online using Vassal. I haven't heard anything about SJG moving to put a stop to that, and in fact the Vassal CW games are promoted on the SJ forums. It seems unfair that Vassal is the only means "allowed". I really want to provide a better alternative, but can't.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.
User avatar
heruca
Developer
 
Posts: 8792
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Next

Return to Submit Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron