Comparison with FG

Non-bug comments, suggestions, and feature requests for BRPG and/or BGE
Post Reply
User avatar
Stuart
Sergeant
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: Leicester, UK

Comparison with FG

Post by Stuart » Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:00 pm

Have just spent about 20 minutes or so playing with the Beta 1.08 with a player, a couple of quick things which I hope come across as positive criticism.

1) Log on etc fine - I can get used to the non-server/alias thing that FG has.
2) Being able to split parties etc is not a feature we could explore (just two of us) but this could be nice.
3) Like the idea of sharing music - how does the player/DM turn off a sound clip (if looped) ?
4) Can the map be scaled or a DM's "mini map" be produced ? Having one close up view leaves me no better off than FG if I have to scroll up and down ... I might as well have multiple maps.
5) Can maps be minimised ?
6) Tokens - movement felt jerky ... the square-by-square movement is fine for a table top wargame but feels odd for us rpg-ers moving away from FG.
7) Loved the Fog of War effect ! Lots of options which I think my player could see.
8 ) Map sharing seemed slower than FG actually ?
9) Can a player not place tokens ? Mine could not. I had to place it and "give" it to him ?
10) Dice rolling - happy with the interface, FG may be graphically more like a tabletop but ...
11) Shame that the system is not more mouse friendly re dragging tokens into position, using the mouse wheel to scroll (rotae token) etc
12) Looking up charts and tables - this is my biggest area of concern. I may well have missed something ... can the table be minimised ? There are many that I'd like to have much "closer" to hand. The preview is useless if the tables are large as the resolution is too poor - not a big issue but. Can the tables be shrunk/enlarged when selected ? Is this automatic ? Rolemaster tables fill an A4 sheet. The process of selection seemed cumbersome ? This could be me or the beta but I could select a table but was then given a prompt to search for a bmp file in the BG directory; which is fine (I can click on folders and eventually select the table I want) but slow. Please get a version able to acess pdfs asap ! Scanning or cut and pasting into a drawing package is a pain.
13) Chat function - also an area of concern but I have been spoiled by FG I guess. Not being able to drag text (room/encounter descriptions) is going to be tough to get used you (my fingers are just not that fast) and I do miss having functions to switch a player/character to action/emote/ooc chat. Again - can get used to this but will miss it.

All-in-all I like the potential of BG especially for wargames (I had picked BG because Sengoku is non d20 and will slot nicely into the tabletop wargame rules I use, "De Bellis Multitudinis") but though it scores over FG in terms of graphics and in particular the Fog of War effect I don't think it rivals FG yet as a chat-based rpg machine. I'm still interested in buying it and running a Sengoku game but it will be more awkward for role playing. I hope I can get maps that make Dev's tokens and the whole graphic side fly !

Any more news on a release date Heruca ?

Is anybody out there planning on using it to run a table top war game ? It seems absolutely ideal as it stands for this purpose if a few changes are made to the chart and table function ... or I read the rlevant section in the manual !

User avatar
heruca
Developer
Posts: 9382
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Contact:

Re: Comparison with FG

Post by heruca » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:28 pm

Stuart wrote:3) Like the idea of sharing music - how does the player/DM turn off a sound clip (if looped) ?
I've yet to add a control for that, sorry. It'll be in v1.0, don't worry.

In the meantime, I think changing the map or loading a new encounter will kill any currently playing sounds on both the host and the player clients.
Stuart wrote:4) Can the map be scaled or a DM's "mini map" be produced ? Having one close up view leaves me no better off than FG if I have to scroll up and down ... I might as well have multiple maps.
A minimap is planned, but not for v1.0.

For now, you have to scroll, but at least this allows for some ranged combat that smaller maps would not be suitable for.
Stuart wrote:5) Can maps be minimised ?
No. Since the focal point of BRPG is the map, I didn't see a need for it. As in a face-to-face session, the battlemat is always on the table.

What would you suggest be visible on screen if the map window isn't there?
Stuart wrote:6) Tokens - movement felt jerky ... the square-by-square movement is fine for a table top wargame but feels odd for us rpg-ers moving away from FG.
Once I add the ability to turn off snap-to-grid, you'll be able to move your objects more freely, and you'll be able to mve them by dragging, which is probably what you are more used to.
Stuart wrote:7) Loved the Fog of War effect ! Lots of options which I think my player could see.
:D
Stuart wrote:8) Map sharing seemed slower than FG actually ?
Really? I've yet to time an internet transfer, but on a LAN, a fullsize map transfers in 5 seconds. Keep in mind that most FG maps are around 300K-500K, and usually top out at 1 MB, while BRPG maps can be up to 2MBs.
Stuart wrote:9) Can a player not place tokens ? Mine could not. I had to place it and "give" it to him ?
Nope, the GM places the tokens, then assigns them to a player.

Is there a real need to let the players place tokens? I suppose it wouldn't be a problem in games where you know and trust all the players, but in other situations it would be disruptive if an unruly player starts placing monsters, treasures, etc.
Stuart wrote:10) Dice rolling - happy with the interface, FG may be graphically more like a tabletop but ...
But at least in BRPG you can hear the dice rolls. :) And die-dropping/cheating isn't possible.

Eventually, die rolls will appear on the map window, and may even be animated (as an option).

Did you try the icon-based die roller, too? You can switch it on in Preferences.
Stuart wrote:11) Shame that the system is not more mouse friendly re dragging tokens into position, using the mouse wheel to scroll (rotate token) etc
Re dragging, see above.

Mousewheel support is certainly possible in the future, although it may have to be a Windows-only feature (I'm dependant on a third-party plugin for that).
Stuart wrote:12) Looking up charts and tables - this is my biggest area of concern. I may well have missed something ... can the table be minimised ? There are many that I'd like to have much "closer" to hand. The preview is useless if the tables are large as the resolution is too poor - not a big issue but. Can the tables be shrunk/enlarged when selected ? Is this automatic ? Rolemaster tables fill an A4 sheet. The process of selection seemed cumbersome ? This could be me or the beta but I could select a table but was then given a prompt to search for a bmp file in the BG directory; which is fine (I can click on folders and eventually select the table I want) but slow. Please get a version able to acess pdfs asap ! Scanning or cut and pasting into a drawing package is a pain.
For now, it's a pretty bare-bones implementation. It will get beefed up over time, by adding support for large tables (scrolling/panning) and PDFs (either embedded in a BRPG window, or launched externally in your default PDF viewer software). I will also make it a regular window that can be minimized, to keep it at hand.

I agree that the Previews are too small to be of much use. Clear naming and filing of tables is probably the way to go.

If playing a particularly table-heavy system like Rolemaster, it may just be easier to keep the hardcopy books beside you, than to try to scan hundreds of charts & tables.
Stuart wrote:13) Chat function - also an area of concern but I have been spoiled by FG I guess. Not being able to drag text (room/encounter descriptions) is going to be tough to get used you (my fingers are just not that fast) and I do miss having functions to switch a player/character to action/emote/ooc chat. Again - can get used to this but will miss it.
A "Chat as.." command will be added to the chat window in v1.0. This will also allow for OOC chat.

Text macro support will be added after the initial release. Players can use that for dialogue macros for their PCs, and the GM can use it for either pre-written NPC dialogue, or for room descriptions.
Stuart wrote:Any more news on a release date Heruca ?
Beta 1.0.9 should be posted tonight or tomorrow. I'm hoping v1.0 will be available within 10 days.

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT HOLD ME TO THIS. I'VE BEEN WRONG ON RELEASE DATES MANY TIMES.
Stuart wrote:Is anybody out there planning on using it to run a table top war game ? It seems absolutely ideal as it stands for this purpose if a few changes are made to the chart and table function ... or I read the rlevant section in the manual !
I'd certainly like to try it out for some light wargames, like OGRE/GEV, or any of the Standard Games series of skirmish games (Siege, Cry Havoc, Dark Blade, Vikings, etc.). There's also an Aliens (the movie) boardgame that I'm dying to use with BRPG.

Anyone feel like making some chess & checker pieces and a gameboard? :)


__________

Thanks for posting this, Stuart (and for finally getting around to trying out BRPG). I'm well aware that BRPG v1.0 will have some shortcomings when compared to the more mature programs out there. It will also have some features that are better. But I think that given time, BRPG will become a contender.

If I were a d20 player/GM, I might use one of the other apps for now, and use BRPG for other games (that are harder to create rulesets for in the other programs).

But if nicer graphics, sound support, dynamic Fog of War, multi-platform support, and a lower learning curve are important to you or your players, BRPG is (IMO) already a contender, even for d20 games. At least Halebop seems to think so. :)
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

User avatar
Stuart
Sergeant
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: Leicester, UK

Post by Stuart » Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:35 pm

Thanks for the rapid response !
It looks like all my minor "issues" are soon to be resolved ! If tokens can be dragged by the mouse that will win some FG users ... I'd still like to be able to minimise or zoom the map ... for battle system purposes this is pretty essential.

When version 3 (!) is released ... if it can better FG as a paperless rpg system complete with character sheets ... you'll clean up ! I like it already and will use both systems; one for my d20 games and this one for the non d20.

Good job so far.

User avatar
Omnidon
Site Admin
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:46 pm
Location: NY State, USA
Contact:

Post by Omnidon » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:13 pm

Stuart wrote:Is anybody out there planning on using it to run a table top war game ?
Yes, that's probably the first thing I'll use it for, since I've been lazy and haven't gathered enough material for a normal game yet. I also want to try CC3 before I buy Dunjinni.

I love strategy. I usually make my wargames just a large scale RPG, where the player(s) each control the leaders of a faction and roleplay them.

It ends up being a mix of a bit of realism (politics & resource management) with a lot of flashy fantasy (heroes, magical units, bonus dungeons, etc)

And of course, like my normal games, I never use dice, and I make up new rules for almost every game.
Stuart wrote:I'd still like to be able to minimise or zoom the map ... for battle system purposes this is pretty essential.
It would be nice to be able to zoom the map out, but the minimap will be good enough as long as you can click the minimap to change your view. (I don't think we discussed that yet?)

A great feature that is planned is the ability to have multiple maps/encounters open at once, which should help you in some ways.

There will be tabs at the top which let you switch between encounters when you need to.
This won't be implemented for a while I suppose, but I'm really looking forward to it. ;-)

User avatar
Kepli
High Commander
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:53 am
Contact:

Post by Kepli » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:00 pm

Stuart actually did some advertisment for you Heruca LOL

Version 1.0 will already be a good application to use and it is just version 1.0. FG and other applications have been around a lot longer, although FG is also still updating it's funtionality (I don't know about the others).
Image

User avatar
heruca
Developer
Posts: 9382
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Contact:

Post by heruca » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Kepli wrote:Stuart actually did some advertisment for you Heruca LOL
I noticed. Thanks, Stuart. :)
Kepli wrote:Version 1.0 will already be a good application to use and it is just version 1.0. FG and other applications have been around a lot longer, although FG is also still updating it's funtionality (I don't know about the others).
As for the others, MapTool is about to release its 1.0, GameTable is still under development, and KloogeWerks just released a spate of updates that seem to break more than they fix. I don't know about GhostOrb. They haven't updated their site in months. Perhaps Erian will stop by and fill us in on their progress.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

User avatar
erian_7
General
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:50 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL

Post by erian_7 » Tue May 02, 2006 11:52 am

Hey guys, it's the most unreliable poster ever! :oops:

Sorry for all these long pauses--we're in the middle of selling a house, buying a house, packing, moving, and all that fun stuff. I'm also dead in the middle of play-testing for an RP product I'm hoping to have up for sell this year (don't worry heruca, it's a d20 PDF (or set of PDFs), not a computer-based product! Hmm, actually, you possibly interested in any cross-product marketing...) So my time for other RPG-related stuff has been pretty limited. I really am planning on jumping back into this once we get everything settled!

On an update for GhostOrb, it's looking pretty bleak right now. The forum still has some activity, but there's been no update to the client in months and no official word from the owners, or even any posts from staff.
<>< ;^)

User avatar
heruca
Developer
Posts: 9382
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:58 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Contact:

Post by heruca » Tue May 02, 2006 1:50 pm

erian_7 wrote:On an update for GhostOrb, it's looking pretty bleak right now. The forum still has some activity, but there's been no update to the client in months and no official word from the owners, or even any posts from staff.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

That certainly doesn't sound too promising.

Thanks for the update. And good luck with the house, the move, and the business venture. Be sure to post a link to your site when you have one up.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests