Armies of Arcana questions and thoughts

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Post by heruca » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:01 pm

Zinkala wrote:With the turn sequencer is there any way to take a step back, say for example if you hit it by accident?
Undo [Z]. But I think the Undo feature is broken in current releases.
Zinkala wrote:The only big thing I see right now is how to create and assemble units and allowing them to pivot on corners as well as rotate in the middle.
I use a Turning Key for Car Wars games. It's an object that I place alongside a car unit. The key shows various turning angles, so I can move and rotate the car to conform to one of those angles. Perhaps a similar approach would work for AoA.
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Post by Zinkala » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:02 pm

I know what your talking about. I had a friend into Car Wars when I was a kid and I've seen it in other games. Another work around I thought of is back to being able to mark a spot on the gameboard. Place a pin at the corner of the unit that isn't moving, wheel the unit and then slide it into position on the pin then continue movement if necessary. A bit clunky but workable although measuring the distance moved might be tricky. With AoA the movement during a wheel is measured using the outside of the arc and theoretically a unit could do a 360 if it's fast enough.

I'd still like to see a way to group individual tokens into units and formations similar to video games where you can hit ctrl # for selection. and while all tokens are selected move the group as a single token. That would work beautifully for things like all soldiers in a unit turning 90 degrees and still allow wheels and such. Easier for the players than switching out tokens.

Did you implement the token swapping from the sideboard? I haven't played around with BRPG 1.4 much yet. Anything that makes changing tokens faster is good.

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Post by heruca » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:22 pm

Here are some of the additions to v1.3 that you should find interesting:
¢ Added a "Token" submenu to the contextual popup menu for all units, which lists all the token art attached to the unit. Users can simply select from this submenu which token they want currently displayed. The submenu also has commands to add a new token and to clear all tokens except for the base token.
¢ The [>] and [<] hotkeys can be used to step through a selected unit's tokens.
¢ Units can now store multiple values for the following parameters: Rotation, Scale, Horizontal Offset, Vertical Offset (and in the case of figures, Base Size). This allows multiple tokens to be used even if the parameters for the different token artwork need to be different.
So you could handle your unit formations with a single large token, and then swap out that token for other tokens showing a diminished unit strength.
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Post by Zinkala » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:38 pm

Thanks, I found it now and it works good. I just need to spend some more time modifying tokens for units. I thought about it more and think that I will go with the turning key for wheels. I'll make a set of templates for various widths of units and have the inches marked on the outside curve. It'll be the simplest way to handle things for now.

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Post by heruca » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:46 pm

Take a look at this. Will it be useful for playing AoA?
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Post by Zinkala » Sun May 24, 2009 11:26 pm

I haven't had much spare time lately and haven't even checked on your forum for a long time. Finally did and checked out your tokens. They look great and will help a lot. I'm hoping to get some units finished off soon and actually try playing a game. I'll be picking up this pack sometime.

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Post by heruca » Sun May 24, 2009 11:36 pm

I was thinking of creating an alternate version of that artpack especially for wargaming, where a variable number of units are "pre-mounted" on a base that is x ranks wide by y ranks deep. That way you could just use the token-swapping feature in BRPG to visually reflect casualties on a formation.

My question to you is: is there a set number that is used for x and y in AoA? What about in other mini-based wargames, like Warhammer and WarMachine? What happens to formations that are significantly reduced in fighting strength? Do they get switched to a smaller base?
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Post by Zinkala » Mon May 25, 2009 12:32 pm

I'm not familiar with how it works in Warmachine as far as units and formations go. For Warhammer there's no set unit size but the rules are set up that 5 man wide ranks are normal and you get a bonus to your morale for each additional rank. AoA is similar but more flexible in regards to formation shape. 6 or 7 wide ranks are usable and the morale bonus is based on the total number of models in the unit. In both AoA and Warhammer as you take casualties you remove individual models from the rear rank. So you need a lot of tokens for each unit to represent having one model more or less for every formation. I started doing tokens for goblins and elves but stalled out after a few units.

Some historical games (DBA, Field of Glory, Impetus and more) use 3-4 models on one base as a unit and group several of those bases together to get bigger formations. They'd be much easier to model in BRPG because you only need a small handful of standard sized group tokens.

I forget can BRPG set groups by ctrl# so that you can quickly reselect a group of tokens that was set up earlier? That would be very useful for skirmishers or for moving multiple units to speed things up.

Another thing we discussed was the small size of the battlefield in BRPG. I was considering shrinking the tokens down further and setting the range finder for a different scale to add more size. For example I started off using 1 square=1" and scaling the tokens to fit on that 1" base. Then I thought to get more room I could shrink the tokens by 50% and set the ground scale to 1 square=2" across. Seemed to work ok. My opinion is that we don't need the highest quality graphics but each unit type needs to be easily identified. I was toying with using different coloured bases for each army as well so that a quick glance showed players who was friendly and enemy. I had to add the colour in photoshop because BRPG only changes the base colour on the center hex/square and not the entire unit when using the larger unit tokens.

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Post by heruca » Mon May 25, 2009 12:45 pm

Thanks for the info.
Zinkala wrote:can BRPG set groups by ctrl# so that you can quickly reselect a group of tokens that was set up earlier? That would be very useful for skirmishers or for moving multiple units to speed things up.
Not yet. It's likely to be added in v1.5, though.
Zinkala wrote:Another thing we discussed was the small size of the battlefield in BRPG. I was considering shrinking the tokens down further and setting the range finder for a different scale to add more size. For example I started off using 1 square=1" and scaling the tokens to fit on that 1" base. Then I thought to get more room I could shrink the tokens by 50% and set the ground scale to 1 square=2" across. Seemed to work ok. My opinion is that we don't need the highest quality graphics but each unit type needs to be easily identified.
That's more or less what I did when I converted Car Wars to BRPG. Portraits can be attached to each unit so that you can see it at full size as you roll over it, even if you've zoomed way out. Makes it easy to identify each unit.
Zinkala wrote:I was toying with using different coloured bases for each army as well so that a quick glance showed players who was friendly and enemy. I had to add the colour in photoshop because BRPG only changes the base colour on the center hex/square and not the entire unit when using the larger unit tokens.
Would three or four different base colors be enough to differentiate the various factions?
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Post by Zinkala » Mon May 25, 2009 1:39 pm

I hadn't thought about portriats but that's a very good idea. The token gives you a rough idea of what it is and the portait could have the unit name on it as well as a picture.

Would the colours be intergrated into BRPG like the current halos or just part of the unit graphic? If it's like the haloes then 4 would be enough. I don't imagine we'd have more than a 2 on 2 battle. If it's recolouring the unit background ideally each army could use a different colour. But there's a lot of armies out there and I doubt we'd ever import more than a handful of them into BRPG. If we could come up with the standard fantasy armies that'd likely be enough. I'd be happy enough with about 4 armies to try things out with.

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Post by heruca » Mon May 25, 2009 1:41 pm

Zinkala wrote:Would the colours be intergrated into BRPG like the current halos or just part of the unit graphic?
The latter.
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Post by Zinkala » Mon May 25, 2009 4:53 pm

Then I'd go with 2 colours for each unit. Allows people to play head to head using the same armies and graphics. The GM can set it up so that one side is always the opposite colour. Ie Blue humans vs red humans, blue elves vs red dwarfs, red humans vs blue dwarfs. That sort of thing. If players want to have larger multiplayer games they can either share a colour or adapt things themselves.

Making the actual units doesn't take long once you've got one token looking the way you want. Just copy and paste until you get the units you want. My big problem(other than lack of time and motivation lately :roll: ) has been finding and sorting things into what's needed in the army lists. From the examples I saw of your medieval pack I think you went a long ways towards solving that at least for humans. It's nice to have things that look similar but have different weapons for an army.

Heavy rain here today. I should spend some time doing the terrain I want for BRPG. I want to draw objects(woods, lakes, etc) with dundjinni. I'll give them labels explaining their in game effects and GMs can use them for setting up maps quickly.

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Post by Zinkala » Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:48 pm

After another incredibly long hiatus I'm back to trying to get this going. I've got a couple of people willing to test things with me I just need to finish up a few small details and reintroduce myself to BRPG. I just downloaded the latest version and some artpacks. I'm having a problem with the art packs. I followed the instructions and registered them but can't find how to import them into BRPG or see any of the tokens and such. What might I be doing wrong? :oops: Where am I supposed to be able to select them?

I also downloaded one of your boardgame packs. This is interesting to me as I'm working on a boardgame of my own that could be used as a campaign for AoA or a stand alone game. This could give me a chance to try it out with some people not near me.

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Post by heruca » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:33 pm

Zinkala wrote:I followed the instructions and registered them but can't find how to import them into BRPG or see any of the tokens and such. What might I be doing wrong?
The "Medieval Armies" artpack contains nothing but figures. Access the content by placing a figure on the map, then select the "Medieval Armies" category in the token selection panel.
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Post by Zinkala » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:15 am

I figured out the problem. I'd unzipped the entire folder into the artpack folder and not just the .cxt file :oops: . Transfered it and everything's working. Shouldn't be playing with things like this when I'm tired.

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