Placing Objects, Infravision, Dice Rolling Macros

Non-bug comments, suggestions, and feature requests for BRPG and/or BGE
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Ellegon
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Placing Objects, Infravision, Dice Rolling Macros

Post by Ellegon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:43 am

Ok, since I got my licence last week I started to play around with the program to start learning the ropes of it. I noted down some thoughts that crossed my mind while digging into. Please don't take it as critic or beings a "know it all". It's just ramblings, feedback and thoughts in no particular order :)

Tiles: I have created a few dungeons with Vry's set. My problem now is, that since every tile is an object, the object list becomes pretty cluttered. It would be great to have an option to hide the Tiles from the Unit Manager (through a filter or similar). On second thought, it would be great to have various filters like Tile, NPC, Monster, Object, Doors, Walls etc.

Placing Objects: Would it be possible to leave the object select window open? After every tile I put (or other item) I have to re-open the select window. It would be even greater if I can pre-select a few objects and then fast-select them somehow (although copy-paste works pretty well).

Infravision: Not sure how it is called in english. But I remember in D&D there was a kind of nightvision where one could see a "heat picture" (kinda like the Predator has :)). Would it be possible to include that feat? I imagine being able to give every object/figure a status like "living", "undead" or "dead". "Living" would mean the object/figure would appear solid & red-ish (if in range of the nightvision), "undead" would mean ghosted and blue and "dead" would mean not visible. If it is in range of a "normal" light source, this could be ignored of course.

Dice Macro (This will be a very long section, sorry for that): The Dice Rolling System is brilliant. But at the same time, there are still setups that can't be done due to the huge amount of different rpg systems and their way of handling dice. Also there are a few limitations (e.g. only 2 types of diceper macro), not to speak of a very packed UI. So I thought how the dice rolling system could be even further improved. My idea: die groups:

Basically every roll of dice consist of various groups of dice. This group can of course contain only one dice, but can also consist of a huge number of dice (e.g. the damage of a fire breath from a dragon in D&D). In addition, the results can be tallied/compared on a dice-level, group-level or total. A few examples:

D20 Attack roll: Simple macro. One die is rolled and it succeeds or not. However, we could say the roll is succesful if the single die is successful, the group (consisting of one die) is succesful or the total is succesful. It doesn't matter as it's only one die in one group. But let's see a more complicated example:

DSA ("Das Schwarze Auge"): In DSA, every skill needs 3 D20 checks against attributes. Only if all checks are succesful, the roll itself is succesful. In addition, you have a knowlege in a skill (e.g. stealth +5), which means if you fail the first check by 3, and succeed the following 2 checks, you still succeed as you can use the skill-points to correct overthrown rolls. However, you can't "correct" overthrown checks by a good roll, you can only correct them with skill points.

Example: Stealth +5, 3 checks needed against 12, 12 and 14 (attribute values). Player throws 10,9,13: succes, as he passes all 3 checks; player throws 13,14,9: succes, as he overthrew the first by one and the second by two, but compared to his +5 he's still good; player throws 2,15,18: failure, although he rolled a 2, he still failed as he overthrew the second roll by 3 and the third roll by 4, totaling of 7 which is more than his +5 can cover.

So this is a more complex roll. We can't compare the total rolled to a value. We also can't look at each roll individually, as they are interconnected. In addition, we have to compare each roll to a different value. This die roll would be impossible with the current rolling system. So let's split it up:

The whole roll consist of 3 groups. Each group has one die which is rolled against a value. If it is equal or lower, the group simply succeeds. If it is higher, the surplus is tallied. The complete roll succeeds if a) all groups succeed or b) the sum of all the grups surpluses is lower/equal than an initial offset. With such a system it doesn't matter if there is one group or 10, and if the group consists of one throw or 3 throws.

Another example:

EABA System (based on this thread): I let Wikipedia explain the dice rolling system quickly: EABA is a d6-based dice pool system. A higher ability or skill level will allow a player to roll more dice to determine success or failure of an action, but only a limited number of dice - usually three, although there is a Trait that permits four or more under certain conditions - may be chosen from the total number of dice rolled. If there are more than three dice in the pool, one of them may be converted to a +2. - Ok that means we have one group of dice (pool = group). The amount of dice in the group varies, there is a group modifier (+2 on a single die of the group) and there is an amount of dice that get discarded (again based on char settings).

So all it would need to have the possibility to build almost every possible roll-combination is a list of actions that can be taken on a dice/group/roll level. I haven't thought about all variations, but here are a starting list:

Die Level:

- Plus/Minus Modifier
- Succeeds on higher than..., lower than..., exact value
- Minimum Value/Maximum Value
- ReRolls on higher than..., lower than..., exact value
- Only x amount of ReRolls
- Negative or positive Offset against value x (e.g. if the value is 4, a 6 would mean a positive offset of 2, whereas a 3 would mean a negative offset of 1)
- Tallies

Group Level:
- Plus/Minus Modifier
- Succeeds on higher than..., lower than..., exact value
- Minimum Value/Maximum Value
- ReRolls on higher than..., lower than..., exact value
- Only x amount of ReRolls
- Negative or positive Offset against value x (e.g. if the value is 4, a 6 would mean a positive offset of 2, whereas a 3 would mean a negative offset of 1)
- Addition/Subtraction/Multiplication of all offsets in the group
- Tallies

Roll Level:

- Plus/Minus Modifier
- Succeeds on higher than..., lower than..., exact value
- Minimum Value/Maximum Value
- ReRolls on higher than..., lower than..., exact value
- Only x amount of ReRolls
- Addition/Subtraction/Multiply between groups (offsets or values)
- Tallies

Of course this looks very complicated and complex. But basically it's exactly what the players do with their dice. For example: if we say "Do a 1D20 against Str, Dex and Int, add/subtract your stat bonus (+2 for Str, +1 for Dex and -1 for Int). If you succeed all 3 rolls, you win the fight." we already setup the complex technique. It's a roll based on 3 groups. Each group has one die (D20), compared to a Value (e.g. Str) with a modifier (e.g.+2). If all groups succeed, the roll succeeds".

Pro/Con: A system as complex as this might be too complicated for an average user. Even with a good manual or instruction video, it's still very complex. Especially because every rpg system is different. However, with an intelligent design (or the help of wizards) it would be very powerful. Also, it's easier to add new possibilities to the levels. I guess the UI would have to be different though. The limitation to 2 kind of dice is probably just a limitation of the UI, not heruca's skills. I would have a system in mind compared to the wizard when you setup a rule in Outlook or at least with different sub-screens for the groups.

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Omnidon
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Re: Placing Objects, Infravision, Dice Rolling Macros

Post by Omnidon » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:47 am

Ellegon wrote:Please don't take it as critic or beings a "know it all".
Eh, don't worry about it. If heruca can tolerate a true know-it-all like me then you're in the clear. :lol: 8)
Ellegon wrote:Tiles: I have created a few dungeons with Vry's set. My problem now is, that since every tile is an object, the object list becomes pretty cluttered.
Yeah, the object manager really could use an overhaul in general, though if I recall that's one of the features that got delayed until BRPG v2.
Ellegon wrote:Placing Objects:
Media selection in BRPG is one of its weakest areas IMO, and I'm really hoping that will be improved in v2.
However, are you aware that you can currently create unit deployment files for commonly placed sets of units? (Like a band of orcs, or the current party of PCs)
Deployments allow you to quickly place entire groups of prespecified units at once.
Ellegon wrote:Infravision: Not sure how it is called in english. But I remember in D&D there was a kind of nightvision where one could see a "heat picture" (kinda like the Predator has :)). Would it be possible to include that feat? I imagine being able to give every object/figure a status like "living", "undead" or "dead". "Living" would mean the object/figure would appear solid & red-ish (if in range of the nightvision), "undead" would mean ghosted and blue and "dead" would mean not visible. If it is in range of a "normal" light source, this could be ignored of course.
Funny you should mention this. This is something I've thought about myself and would definitely be spiffy, though not really a high priorty.

Vision features and filters like this are the kind of thing that would be easy for third party devs to implement if the ability to automatically wrap media (such as chosen figure graphics) in a Flash extension was added to BRPG.

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heruca
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Re: Placing Objects, Infravision, Dice Rolling Macros

Post by heruca » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:21 am

Ellegon wrote:Placing Objects: Would it be possible to leave the object select window open? After every tile I put (or other item) I have to re-open the select window.
Suggestion: Make some multi-token objects. For example, one object might contains all the straight corridors, another all the bends, another contains all the intersections, and another all the stairs. These are now your toolbox for building component dungeons (you might want to save each object as a Deployment). Now simply copy and paste each object as needed to create your dungeon layout, using the token-swapping hotkeys to quickly get to the exact piece you want, and the rotation hotkeys to orient each piece as needed.

As for your dice roller suggestions (my, but that's a complex die rolling mechanic!), how about you make each success roll/check as three separate rolls? For example, you might roll your Strength Check, Intelligence Check, and Dexterity Check (each roll is 1d20 +/- some modifier, checked against a target number). If your results are "failed by 4", "succeeded exactly", and "succeeded by 1", it's easy to know that your +5 Skill modifier will suffice to make the overall attempt a success.
:arrow: Please help spread the word about BRPG and BGE, and never hesitate to tell me how I can make them better suit your gaming needs.

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