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Fog of War (again)

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:36 pm
by dragonds
So far everything has been good, and really look forward to some of the advances coming out in future releases. I do have one suggestion that i believe to be relatively easy to implement:

Can there be an option to OR and XOR dynamic and manual fog of war modes? It would be nice to have either one or the other operating at the same time (if not both, but AND takes care of that already)

I see this being useful in several cases, a it may help in large outdoor spaces with indoor areas under roofs, or caves, etcetera... without changing maps.

This, in essence, could also make the fog of war image transparent where you need it to be, which would solve the grid overlaying the Fog of War problem as well.

Keep up the work. Loving it!

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:26 pm
by heruca
Welcome, dragonds.

Could you elaborate a bit on what exactly you would like to see? I'm not sure I'm understanding the XOR part of the request. Do you mean that the holes being cut into the Manual and Dynamic FoW Layers should also be cut into the grid? This is possible, but would increase rendering time.

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:56 pm
by dragonds
XOR exclusive or. either the Dynamic mode (light source, etc) or Manual (revealed locations on map) would work, but not both.

Assign a priority (say Manual highest) so that in a revealed area, everything is revealed, but as you get close to a concealed area the dynamic would take over and show what is there.

I was working with the overlays, and I have issues with placing figures and objects out where they should be seen, but unless the characters (with their light source/reveal on) get close to the NPC figure, they cannot be seen. A simple click to Manual fixes the problem, but as they enter under overhangs and into buildings (before their slow DM can manually reveal the interior) I like the dynamic reveal to start its thing, so its pseudo seemless for players.

See in the picture below. (figure has attached a Huge Reveal)
Case 1) both on. lose under overhang. lose Horse
Case 2) dynamic only. See under overhang, but lose Horse
Case 3) manual only. lose under overhang, but get Horse

In a prioritized xor (my name), the manual takes precidence, but when your dynamic crosses a manually conceled region it takes over.

Hope this makes sense

Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:10 pm
by heruca
Thanks, now I understand what you're after. I'll give it some thought, as to how to implement something like that without making FoW manipulation too complex.

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm
by Omnidon
Yeah, I too had been thinking that a feature like this would be useful.

The terminology of XOR is a bit misleading in this case though.

To clarify:
Currently, when both manual and dynamic FoW are activated, only areas that are *both* manually revealed and lit by a light source are visible.
From the developer's point of view, this is happening because the manual FoW layer and the dynamic FoW layer are drawn above everything else, thus blocking sight of anything below except where there are holes in both layers.

dragonds is suggesting to have mode or preference setting that allows any area that is *either* manually revealed *or* lit by a light source to be visible.
From the developer's point of view, this would mean that light sources (holes in the dynamic FoW) would become masks for (punch holes in) the manual FoW layer and that the dynamic FoW layer would be hidden entirely.

In terms of implementing this while causing minimal confusion, I think the best way would be to have a checkbox in the FoW panel indented under "Use Manual and Dynamic FoW". (This checkbox would be grayed out when not in Manual & Dynamic mode).
The checkbox could technically be placed in the preferences panel instead of the FoW panel, but that would make it harder to change on the fly and would cause fewer people to discover the feature.

I suggest labeling the checkbox "Strict FoW" (checked by default). Strict because it requires both manual and dynamic to agree on revealed areas.

You could label it something a bit more self-explanatory like "Manual FoW masks Dynamic FoW" or "Require both Manual & Dynamic Reveals", but that's not going to be much clearer to most people, and it's easier to teach people about the feature if you can refer to it using simple terminology like "Strict FoW".